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CONTEST ZEJ Statistical Contest ~ Iteration 4

Discussion in 'Roleplaying Discussion' started by Eebit, May 11, 2016.

  1. So the background philosophy behind changing the meta of each Excess Process-- nerfing E-Triggers slightly and encouraging their effects to be more focused and intentional, and trying to drive away from the burst Piercing Damage X-Abilities-- is, at least in part, meant to give each of them a reason to be used. In the past, both have just been buttons which generally gave you an increased damage output, and that was very nearly the only thing they did and the only purpose in their designs. Not only was this unfitting as far as Unit's roles go, it made the core distinction between E-Triggers and X-Abilities extremely minimal-- if your goal in using either is to get more damage, you'd obviously want to use whichever one was more efficient. Our thinking was that most of the time, that'd actually end up being the E-Trigger-- most of them were buffing an Offensive Stat and giving you extra Actions per Turn, which in principle will actually end up conveying more Total Damage done to the Enemy Team than a burst of 200% Piercing Damage, most of the time. Now burst damage is more valuable than sustained, and Piercing Damage obviously has its own merits, but this difference in Total Damage will likely end up significantly favoring an E-Trigger, especially since the ways it supplies that extra Damage is inherently more versatile than a straight Damage Instance of 200% Piercing Damage. And this isn't even bringing their costs into the equation, because that ends up clearly making E-Triggers the more efficient Excess Process. So then, if the E-Trigger is just better than an X-Ability... why would you use the X-Ability? That's one of the driving forces behind the initial change here-- to push E-Triggers and X-Abilities to have purposes beyond simply Total Damage dealt.

    At this point, Shadow's already posted and essentially summarized what I was going to say (and have already said). However, yes, one of the main reasons behind keeping E-Triggers a sustained effect and X-Abilities an instant one is to help keep them from treading on each other's toes and make sure they both have as wide a distinction behind why you would use either as possible, which when all is said and done can only serve to add strategic depth, which I think must be accepted in principle as a desirable thing. I'd also like to posit that both Excess Processes are fundamentally tools which you use when you need them-- if a battle is going favorably, there's no real reason to waste the precious resource of X-Levels on simply making it go faster. In this sense, both E-Trigger and X-Ability function as safeties, and it's in each Unit's best interests to try and make sure they have access to a variety of ways to get themselves out of trouble. With the encroaching popularity of unique mechanics which can both limit and empower Units, I like to identify the E-Trigger as the perfect candidate for the safety one can use in order to stay viable in a fight, since it's more easily-accessible than the X-Ability. The X-Ability in turn is the safety to use when you need the entire fight to change (and fast), rather than your own Unit's viability.
  2. I have two cents to input.

    1) If E-Triggers are "superpassives" and X-Abilities are "Superactives" then what constitute "Supertriggers?"

    2) Considering Celina's X-Ability is basically a massive delayed buff, I think we need to consider that the line has already been blurred. Yeah, it's more burst like and active, but it still provides a bunch of passive effects in addition to adding cells to the field.
  3. Nothing of the sort so far. Although you technically could set up your E-Trigger to provide a provide a powerful Trigger effect for a certain number of turns--an interesting thought.

    That or we can just leave that to the elusive OVERDRIVE.

    It's not that it has been blurred; once again, there's a difference between a "burst-esque" sustained effect and what amounts to a glorified E-Trigger, and Celina's X-Ability just happens to fall near the first definition. It's already quite a bit different than just a pool of passives, which is why it made it into second place. If appropriately tweaked, it could very well function as a standalone X- without falling into the realm of being similar to an E-Trigger, simply because it's performing a different role (i.e. an active-like role as opposed to a passive-like role).
  4. Again, I don't really see why it has to be instantaneous if it's gamechanging anyway. Surely you can't argue that Mimring's Burst Mode would potentially win the battle for the party- getting an initial bit of damage off if he uses it in the middle of a group of enemies, then proceeding to murder everything with double-power Lightning attacks.

    Yes yes I know that, thanks for missing the point.

    My point was why can't a skill-esque E-Trigger cohere with the profile? As an example, I imagine Mimring moving around a lot- Plasma Dragon would surely help out his X-Ability, if not his R/S/potentially B, and maybe even his short-ranged AoE skills.

    I've already ranted my opinion about this so I'll leave that alone.

    As I said, difference in design philosophy. Things like this are why I opted to make a variant of the system for KeM which will show itself in other statplays of mine like Interface (sans Burst Mode obv); my idea of the system is quite a bit different from yours or Eeb's or Masq's.
  5. But that's part of the problem that "blurs the lines" between E-Triggers and X-Abilities. You could say exactly the same about E-Triggers in a sense--if the distinction between the two is so ambiguous, why have an X-Ability at all? If you can achieve the same result with what functionally amounts to a "better" or "bigger" E-Trigger, then we might as well collapse the gauge back into a 10-point system without different Excess Processes.

    It's not missing the point though, it's part of the reason why E-Triggers can't just be anything. You can argue that virtually any kind of A-Skill-like behaviors can "cohere" with the profile in the same way you can say that Rogue archetypes "move a lot", and DPT archetypes "deal damage". The design philosophy for A-Skills is simply too different and broad to be applied to E-Triggers. Once again, mind the Passive and Active distinction.

    You keep saying "design philosophy", but what is really happening is that you have an... outdated idea of how Excess Processes work. Actually, this is rather similar to how Innates were handled in the past; people kept thinking there were tags that specifically described unique mechanics for the character when in reality they were supposed to be Profession-dependent effects.

    If your solution is to branch out then that's perfectly fine, but at least keep in mind that Excess Processes have guidelines that cannot be bent in favor of "design philosophies". It's a different system, after all.

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