Dismiss Notice
Vote for us!

Remember to vote for ZEJ at our Top RP Sites page! You can vote only once daily, so make sure to do so and help us reach the top!

Let's Talk ~ Galamion

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by Eebit, Nov 7, 2014.

  1. Hey all, I just wanted to kickstart some discussion about our open world section - Galamion. For a long time now, it's been lying dormant despite the efforts to draw attention to it, sporadic though they may be. There was a bit of hype that was reared when Sole was planning his Crown of Thorns event in the summer of 2013 with the other Guardians, but outside of that... relatively little is ever spoken of our poor collaborative environment, barring the odd comment here and there in the welcome threads for our new users. It's a sad time for what could really be a cool place to roleplay. And I am genuinely interested in changing that.

    I have had some quiet conversation with a few members over the years about how to make Galamion a tantalizing environment to engage in, even as early on as when it was back at Magnolia. There have been quite a few varied answers, but they have given me some ideas on how to really broaden the horizons of the subsection. If you guys don't mind listening to these ideas, I'll lay them out below for discussion.

    What I don't want to do with this is step on the toes of the Guardians of Galamion who put a decent amount of work in setting things up, so if I am overstepping any 'boundaries' then let me know! Otherwise, I will keep chugging along. Give me your feedback. Give me your ideas. Let's get this going together and make Galamion something really special, collaborative, and open, as was planned at its inception.

    ~ A ~ ( M O R E ) ~ O P E N ~ W O R L D ~

    I really want to emphasize the 'openness' of Galamion to everyone. It is meant to be a canvas for our imaginations to run wild, and I hoped to get the "Manaverse" crew involved with that when we were integrating Galamion into the Manaverse proper. There is an endless space for opportunity in this collaborative world, so fittingly, my first talking point is about how we're not really opening the world up, so to speak. Anyone is able to start a quest, but I feel like people are apprehensive of starting a quest line within Galamion for fear of stepping on the toes of the country 'owners.' As Sole and Inkblot (and ostensibly Blackout) are gone from the community, their countries are probably going to fall to the wayside if the expectation remains that only the country owners will start quests.


    ~ F R E E F O R M ~ A N D ~ S T A T I S T I C A L ~ I N T E G R A T I O N ~

    This is the meat-and-potatoes of where my thoughts for a better 'integration' of Galamion stems from. A few members of the IRC chat have mentioned to me that they would be really interested in seeing a Galamion statplay come to fruition. This is the reason I started the Statistical Tutorial - to teach people who were interested in learning about statistical roleplaying for the purpose of opening up/demystifying the medium so that it could extend to include all of ZEJ. Since we have two 'main' ways of roleplaying around these parts, and inevitably everyone will have their own preferences, I think it makes sense to integrate both to coexist in harmony in what is to be our whole forum's collaborative roleplaying environment.

    What I am not saying is that we make every quest have a statistical portion to it. That would be 1. unfeasible, and 2. alienate people who just don't want to roleplay with statistics attached. I do think there is a time and place for statistical roleplaying, and that it brings interesting things to the table in terms of how characters can grow and evolve over time (more on that in the next section).


    ~ C H A R A C T E R S : ~ F R O M ~ T H E ~ G R O U N D ~ U P ~

    How do I propose we go about integrating both of our most popular 'mediums' of roleplaying? Well, at the most basic, I want to incentivize participating in quests. There are a number of ways in which we could go about this, of course, but mainly I want to start with character growth. Something I've been discussing quietly is the idea of starting a character from scratch - at Level One, as you would in a video game like Skyrim. If we use that as a base model, and look at the expansive world in which your decisions ultimately change your gameplay path, then we can easily apply the same principles to Galamion. So, what I am proposing is that every character be given a (relatively) equal footing. Characters gain experience from going on quests, freeform OR statistical, which allow them to Level Up (statistically), and then use that as a basis for their freeform powers.

    Profiles - freeform and statform - and other pertinent character information (all their worldly possessions, money, powers, relationships with other characters, whatever) can be tracked in a "Character Chronicle" type thread (essentially a Dramatis Personae of all Galamian characters, with a Table of Contents [similar to the Cult of Ustream profile thread] for easy navigation).

    In my mind, this will allow both types of roleplaying to exist in a symbiotic relationship. What Cerby brought up to me when I was discussing this with him was that some people don't even want to create any profile, let alone both a statistical and freeform profile to keep track of, especially if the character is not meant to last forever. I made a proposal; just drop the name of the character in the Character Chronicle, and keep track of the experience/affinity/items that your character obtains on quests. That way, while you don't immediately need to create a profile to participate (except in statistical quests, naturally), what happens can be appropriately documented until you get around to filling out a profile skeleton.


    ~ Q U E S T ~ L E A D E R B O A R D S ~

    One final thing on the note of 'incentivizing' quests - I would be interested in implementing a 'champions list' of characters who have embarked on the most quests. It's kind of nice to be recognized for your efforts, and it adds a little bit of friendly competition to see who can clear the most quests with their character. Or maybe have other people have incentive to eliminate the 'reigning leader' in-character. Notoriety should come with a price, in- and out-of character, and I feel like it could make things interesting, depending on how we choose to play it.


    ~ ~ ~

    So those are just some points for discussion that I'd like to hear about the thoughts of the Guardians ( @Rose , @ShadoeMayari , @CodasterTheDisaster , @blackoutEquinox ) especially, but also the rest of ZEJ's staff. Do you guys see these musings of a lunatic as something that could hypothetically work? I'd be interested in taking Galamion head-on to revive not only a barren open world, but also the ZEJ statplaying scene. Hopefully this can be an environment in which both types of roleplaying are acceptable, and character growth is encouraged. I'd be happy to talk more about my thoughts in this thread, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. Once I've gotten some staff input, I might move this out into the open for some more discussion, but I have some plans that I'd like to just roll out soontimez. A couple statistical questlines, for instance, are on the horizon (and have been for quite a bit).

    I'd also be totally cool with helping the Guardians get more acquainted with statplaying, if they're interested. I know it's a bit cumbersome to navigate for the first little bit, but it gets to be quite fun and entertaining when you get the hang of it.

    Discuss away, lads and lasses!
     
  2. Now that I have my timeline mostly cemented (there's still a few oddities, like how Jack appeared on Ferona after ARKNET but before the Travellers saga), I'm going to probably start up a Galamion-based RP set in the Travellers saga of Messenger's Memoirs. Being that MM, as I've envisioned it, is a sort of "super-canon" containing accounts of events my characters have been involved in through various other canons, I could possibly pull something like this off.
     
  3. I think the main point I want to address here is about Galamion's "open world" aspect. As a suggestion, if you really wanted to emphasize its "openness", then it would be vastly effective to promote it as a "community project"--something more than just expecting so-called "quests" and storylines to appear from third parties who have not had the slightest bit of prior involvement. What I mean is simply treating it more outwardly as a collaborative project: getting people other than the "Guardians of Galamion" to work on the world and familiarize themselves with both what they are developing, and what others have developed. Ideally, I would like for the "Manaverse Crew" to get equally involved in this (myself included), to help bridge the initial gap ever since Galamion's (somewhat unceremonious) introduction to the Manaverse.

    From there, Galamion gains activity in the form of development, and (hopefully) interest from a wider group of people. Obviously, I'd like to see what's the Guardians' stance on this, but I think it is something that could legitimately work for the better.
     
  4. Quite frankly, I'll do anything that boosts activity in it. It has a lot of untapped potential, and I try my best to stress the openness of it. I get messages on occasion from people asking to make a country, and I'll say absolutely. When I made it, I intentionally left parts of it open for interpretation, I hardly went through timelines (the only reason I did was to give a bit of discussion on political situations and things like that) so people could set things in whatever time period they want.

    I really like Eebit's character incentive. The whole video game thing would help appeal to the masses. I have said characters can go on multiple quests (I would even encourage it) and they can use it as part of their history and can help flesh out characters. I don't know much about Skyrim (I'm not going to pretend I do... Fus ro dah?) but I'm certain it can be integrated into the system fairly easily.
     
  5. Ooooooh boy. Oh boy.

    Yeah, Eeb's description of the video game open world setting is what I envisioned Galamion as in the first place. I remember when I first designed my country, I intentionally kept it very vague as to what was happening in the country, aside from the building tensions of a political uprising. The reason I left it at the start of the conflict, and with very little known about the wilderness areas of the country was so that people could join in on quests and shape the future of Aeneryia. Sadly, I don't think a single one of my quests took off. People were too timid to make their own quests, and it seems that everyone interested in my quests didn't know what they wanted to do with their characters because I'm positive that I had absolutely nothing happen in Aeneryia. Maybe that's because of people not wanting to commit, maybe it's because I'm shitty at world design. Who fucking knows. That's in the past.

    If I remember correctly, quests were always open to be made by anyone, in any country. Sure, major fate-of-the-world events were left to the Guardians, but I think that's why we're here. Everyone has a chance to change Galamion, it's just the Guardian's job to piece together all the small things and make it a part of the lore.

    However, most of our Guardians dipped. I'm pretty sure Rose and I are the only active Guardians (well, Rose is an admin but you get my point). We're going to have to give up the countries that were previously designed to new Guardians, or tear them down and rebuild the world from the ground up. To be honest, I think tearing it down and rebuilding parts of it would be a great way to reintroduce Galamion to the community. As for the quest xp/leaderboards/profile lists...Fuckin' great idea. I love it. The lore could be filled with all kinds of famous and infamous characters because of it. The best part, though, is that every one of those legendary figures would be a player-created character. It just seems like such a great idea for me and it makes me excited enough to piss myself just thinking about it.

    My failure to control my bladder aside, I think Eeb's got the right idea about this. Everyone needs to quit being so afraid of stepping on the Guardian's toes, because honestly we want you to help shape the future of the countries we spent so many hours designing.
     
  6. Given this, a Galamion Brainstorming thread may be an idea; I mean I know for certain that my races are planet-faring (meaning they explore the universe around them. a lot.), so it stands to reason that, since Galamion is formally part of the Manaverse, they would probably have stumbled upon it by now.
     
  7. Now that we've had the chance to do a little bit of 'internal' discussion, I figured I would bring this thread out into the public eye. The beginning bits of staff discussion have been left intact, and the original post covers just about all of what I would like to say. So, general public of the forum... let's talk!
     
  8. Ok, so- Galamion. ZEJ Open World, player-created...
    Well I agree with the idea to completely restart Galamion. WHAT IF- I WERE TO BE A GUARDIAN? Or well, help build the world anew? Perhaps there should be a better... system for making quests? I haven't checked the section yet, but I'm just going to throw out ideas you may or may not have.
    Like, Ranks with allowed monsters, spoils, etc.
    And the higher ranks are longer and more complex (Go here, beat X amounts of monster Y, advance, beat boss Z, return...), and perhaps have party requirements (Must be X amount of players to participate in quest)?
    The thing is- how would interaction with NPCs and the world work? Like say, for a quest, you have to speak to X NPC for information. Who would control the dialogue? The quest maker?
     
  9. I've been a part of large world forums in the past, is this what you're trying to go towards @Eebit?
     
  10. The quests function as a normal roleplay, just in the setting of Galamion. NPCs would be controlled by the GM, business as usual.

    I don't, however, like the party requirements. RPs would never get started if people are always one shy or so. I would not recommend that.

    I have a question for everyone. Gist raised this question last night: Was it really unclear that anyone could start a quest? I'm not saying it accusingly, because that means it's my fault for a lack of...transparency regarding the issue.
     
  11. I don't necessarily think that we need a large-scale reboot of the planet. We have a good framework for our play structure set up already, now it's really just a matter of getting the kids to play on it. I do agree with Shadow and Dark in that it could use some development, or some 'terraforming' so to speak. Whether we want to do that out of character (with structure) or in character (organically) is yet to be decided, I guess, but I don't think anyone needs to be a Guardian to pitch forth their ideas.

    On that note, Shadow made a good point to me last night on the matter while the forums were down. To paraphrase his point, the Guardians are the 'mastheads' of the world, and they have the ultimate say in what flies and what doesn't in Galamion. That doesn't mean new people can't come along and volunteer themselves for running a country/important guild/whatever, but these newcomers will be subservient to the Guardians that we currently have. In that sense, I propose that the Guardians usergroup be closed to applicants.

    As far as quests go, they are intended to be rather self-contained. The person posting the quest will handle NPC characters and dialogue, as would be expected of any Game Master. The expectation is that they will be resolved by the GM, and the characters end up at the end location of the quest (be that a town, a forest, off a cliff, in the middle of the ocean... wherever). In my mind's eye, I see characters being given Statistical Experience as a reward for these quests (which I will settle up with the individual quest runners), items, and the works at the conclusion of the quests, as well. My expectation is that everyone will keep track of the experience and items received in their profile (in the Character Chronicle I vaguely spoke of in the opening post) - even if they don't have a statistical profile. Even if they never plan on making a statistical profile. I think it will help establish a "relative" power level as the characters grow in a freeform setting, but also establish an "absolute" power level in terms of statplaying.

    Surely, "Quest Ranks" will establish themselves as the time goes on. Nobody is going to be dismantling governmental systems or slaying the Last Known Dragon™ at Level One. I don't care how good you guys think you are or how frontloaded you can make your characters - I don't want to see things move THAT quickly!

    On the subject of Galamion, Gist noted in her interest check (check it out, guys) that we could use some tags in the Interest Checks section for the denotation of a freeform or statistical Galamion quest.
     
  12. The forum is dead enough as it is; I'd be okay with just having the 3 that we have until it springs to life again.
     
  13. I don't feel like we need a reboot either and, now that I'm back, I can really get into doing things again. I do feel that some things need to be reworked country wise, but things should remain vague enough for people to get really excited about going out and exploring the world. People should also feel like whatever actions they take can contribute to changing the world which is why I also agree with whoever said that the Guardians should be the ones to tie the things all together. Which means that, even though a lot of us have set things up to allow for open war, that actions could be taken to prevent war.

    One thing I am concerned with is what would happen to established characters and their stats. Would all characters start out as level one even if they have a lot of experience with fighting in the canon lore of the world? Really, how would that be handled? That's my one real concern.

    I'm super excited for this so just tell me what needs be done and I'll get it taken care of when I'm not busy with school and such.
     
  14. Maybe an appropriate term would be 'soft reboot.' The world and its countries make up some solid linework on an otherwise blank canvas, so now we just need to start colouring it in (yeah, I'll probably keep making dumb analogies like this). We're essentially starting from scratch here, apart from Castaways. Now might be a good time to bring all of our Country Info threads in line with one another; they each provide varying degrees of information themselves, but we should settle on a unified style for what they should be displaying (and update the maps, while we're at it, so that we aren't condemning ourselves with the ugly MS Paint maps of yore).

    By "established characters" I can only assume that you mean Rashid as there are canonically no other characters with quest experience in the ZEJ iteration of Galamion (barring Shaylee, but it was my understanding that that was to be a one-off? Correct me if I'm wrong, of course). I'm sure you're not going to be particularly pleased with my answer, but in the interests of keeping everyone on a level playing field, I would provide a couple options:

    1. Rashid becomes an important NPC. He's already the quest leader of Training Days (though I would imagine that quest would also need to start anew, being that it kind of petered out in terms of activity), and as you've stated, he has a lot of experience 'canonically.' Although it is my gut instinct to say that coming up with background history is a sort of invisible power that I want to avoid. He has been shown to be someone of significance, and I don't want to automatically either "nerf" him or deprive you of the experience of playing him. But I want people to start from Square One, and allowing Rashid to be a pretty high-ranking member of the Unity Guard of Deunti right away doesn't seem congruent with that goal.

    2. Rashid gets hella nerfed and brought down to a Level 1 character (+ appropriate rewards given for his participation in Castaways). In this option, he can still keep his background and everything, but he will be starting from, more or less, the same place as any other prospective Galamian character. This option isn't elegant or anything, but it does keep the playing field equal. The only problem with this is that I know that it will be tedious to bring down a demonstrably strong character equipped with things that I would equate with a strong, higher-levelled character... plus he has a pet dragon rofl. Offering him Level One stats in a statplay (or the equivalent freeform power level) seems like it isn't fair to him as a character.

    In my opinion, I would sooner make Rashid into your personal "important NPC character" who can be at a higher level, and request that you start another character from a lower beginning. I'm sure that the Guardians would/should all be allowed a higher-level NPC character, as well, and I would be interested in helping you guys saddle up Statistical Profiles for such characters. But for the sake of participating on an equal playing field with other ZEJians, I'd request that you guys come up with other characters for general quest participation/climbing prospective "leaderboards."

    (That also translates to other characters designed to be "high-ranking," but I want to keep that exclusive to the Guardians. That isn't to say that others cannot create/play as NPCs, but ideally they won't be recursive like someone like Rashid seems to be.)
     
  15. What isn't keeping him "barred" from use in statplays until people reach his level? Nerfing years of effort doesn't sound fair to me :(
     
  16. The thing about essentially banning him from use is that we may not see people reach his "level" for a long time. It really depends on the activity levels of Galamion, and that isn't exactly fair to Blackout (who surely just wants to roleplay his character) either. We have briefly discussed this dilemma (I believe @Flimzy brought it up once) - that statplaying as a system does not lend itself well to characters that have a pre-established power level. We can definitely discuss the nuances of the system, but this is a definite shortcoming of it. I think the opportunity cost is appropriate in this circumstance, but I want to know particularly what Blackout thinks of this before I make a hardline stance.

    Additionally, if I keep Rashid specifically banned from statplays but continue to allow him to participate in freeforms, then we'll see an instance of what is essentially Markovnikov's Rule - the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. As I plan to assign statistical experience for the successful completion of freeform quests, then Rashid can go on his merry way getting stronger and stronger than everyone else by accumulating experience from all the quests he'll do.

    Nothing against Blackout or Rashid, I am just trying to keep things fair in this sort of a fresh start. That's why we're having a discussion, I suppose.
     
  17. Disallowing him a statistical presence in the form of experience and such should be a thing, though. Kinda like you doing a game of Intro Bots, you gain no IP/EXP, so that principle could apply here.
     
  18. Okay I just wanted clarification on that one issue. I like keeping him as an NPC and a guide of sorts for significant people of the nation since he is a key part of my ideas for Deunti. I have other characters to play as regardless so I wasn't worrying about not being able to be a part of stat-plays or free forms. I was more worried about not being able to use him at all, but so long as he remains a guide of sorts that's okay. He wouldn't gain levels or experience at all for a long time regardless of what happens, which would probably only change when characters make it to his level. And as a guide he wouldn't do much/any fighting in the majority of cases. I would still want to do a stat page for him though, especially since he isn't at peak power and still has a lot of character development left to do on him.

    Basically make him a quest giver/lore master for a long time I guess if that doesn't bring up too many problems. I'm happy with that as long as I can keep his history.
     
  19. I'm not sure what direction I'd take Shaylee in. She could be an NPC in something, since she's just hanging around, and maybe could start a side quest or something. Who knows? She's definitely not at the same kind of ranking as Rashid, that's for sure, but does have some of the experience from Castaways. Nerfing could happen to her, and it wouldn't really affect her much. It's up in the air, she can be called if needed.

    Anyway, I agree we need to get the countries in the same general format. The Manaverse Wiki I think will really help with that, if there's a given form, and can help cut back on all the cluttery threads. It also could help flesh out and develop the countries more. What we could do is have people take a country and try to flesh it out in the Wiki.

    And yeah, the maps are a bit on the terrible side... art skills are ehhhh....

    ALSO. I just went in and added tags for [Galamion / Freeform] and [Galamion / Statistical]. Have fun, @Gist and everyone else!
     
  20. Ok, first things, first....I plan on getting into Galamion at some point, but till then....

    Back on my old forum, we built our world from the ground up, literally. It was a multiverse of three different 'known' universes. The Subteranean Realms, the Star Fox universe, and the Rifts world. But, one my our 'guardian' characters held a castle/keep that spanned the multiverse, so it's at all likely that they would have come across this world at some point, like Nebulon Ranger said. That would introduce advanced tech, as well as a whole 'nother ballgame into this world if you merged the one that my forum built, and this one.

    I don't know if that steps on any toes, or not, but if you like the idea,hit me up. I was one of the lead designers of the world my forum built.
     

Share This Page