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Discussion in 'The Manaverse Wiki Project' started by Keileon, Jun 28, 2014.
Discussion for the collaborative world of Rinul, the homeworld of the Ereva.
Throwing this here
[2015-05-31 00:12:10] <Starr|PL> Was Rinul's destruction during SCT or shortly before it?
[2015-05-31 00:12:22] <Ziolang> The latter iirc
[2015-05-31 00:12:23] <Keileon> (I mean unless Shadow feels comfortable doing a Rinul CP)
[2015-05-31 00:12:27] <Keileon> Neither
[2015-05-31 00:12:34] <Ziolang> o
[2015-05-31 00:12:37] <Keileon> In Alter Timeline it's around SCT
[2015-05-31 00:12:42] <Keileon> In Prime it's long after
[2015-05-31 01:33:52] <Shadow> My train of thought with the "Ereva aren't necessarily fox kemonimimis" was to give more room for image inconsistencies (like Tascera being a catgirl). I think it's fine restricting it to canines/felines though. That whole family tree.
[2015-05-31 01:39:10] <Keileon> What I want to get developed/cleared up though
[2015-05-31 01:39:32] <Keileon> Aside from mana worship and merchant society, what is Ereva society /like/?
[2015-05-31 01:41:19] <Ziolang> lolmanaworship
[2015-05-31 01:41:44] <Ziolang> Crystal temples to worship the mana gods
[2015-05-31 01:42:00] <Starr|PL> Though I don't know much about their society, they could seem either religious like or hippy
[2015-05-31 01:42:46] <Ziolang> Also, if they haven't already, dimensional capabilities need to be nerfed to more of a "possible capability" rather than an innate characteristic
[2015-05-31 01:43:08] <Starr|PL> Not smoke a joint hippy but really....into mana to a point where they value people who think, study, and whatever to connect with it
[2015-05-31 01:43:36] <Ziolang> They'd be rather connected; passive compared to most other races
[2015-05-31 01:44:16] <Starr|PL> My two taaiva though
[2015-05-31 01:44:17] <Shadow> <Ziolang> Also, if they haven't already, dimensional capabilities need to be nerfed to more of a "possible capability" rather than an innate characteristic --- Already nerfed
[2015-05-31 01:44:22] <Starr|PL> No iPod not Taliban
[2015-05-31 01:44:50] <Ziolang> kk
[2015-05-31 01:45:18] <Shadow> Actually I don't think I have said this, but I was thinking their dimensional capability stems more from their affinity to Mana than anything else. By leyline warping or something similar.
[2015-05-31 01:45:33] <Ziolang> Well that was the original idea, yeah
[2015-05-31 01:45:35] <Starr|PL> Leyline warping woo
[2015-05-31 02:00:23] <Ziolang> Alright so my understanding of Erevan culture is their practically/literally religious connection to mana. They are naturally drawn to the arts; resulting in craftsmanship and spellcraft as featured occupations. Passive by most races' standards, but not to a point that they're ignorant of danger and therefore have weapons, training, conflicts etc.
[2015-05-31 02:01:34] <Ziolang> They cherish a symbiotic bond with the unique crystal growth of Rinul; each having their own "birth crystal".
[2015-05-31 02:02:01] <Ziolang> Aaaand water's boiling quick brb
[2015-05-31 02:06:44] <Starr|PL> So Ereva are basically religious counterparts of crysians
[2015-05-31 02:12:00] <Ziolang> back
[2015-05-31 02:12:26] <Ziolang> That's just what I know/remember off the top of my head
[2015-05-31 02:23:47] <Ziolang> Quit complaining and dev the Ereva with me
[2015-05-31 02:24:06] <Ziolang> How big is Rinul?
[2015-05-31 02:24:20] <Ziolang> Are going like, "standard earth size" or wut
[2015-05-31 02:24:28] |<-- Flem has left irc.paradoxirc.net (Quit: tonight I dream of space marines fighting dwaggins)
[2015-05-31 02:25:04] <Keileon> Wasn't there something about it being the burned-out core of a planet
[2015-05-31 02:25:15] <Starr|PL> Wait what
[2015-05-31 02:25:19] <Shadow> Did you forget the part it was a dimension?
[2015-05-31 02:25:24] <Starr|PL> I've never heard of this
[2015-05-31 02:25:30] <Starr|PL> Or that
[2015-05-31 02:25:44] <Shadow> Starr pls do you ever pay attention
[2015-05-31 02:26:19] <Starr|PL> Do I have to remind you these devs happen very late at night when I sleep
[2015-05-31 02:26:46] <Ziolang> Ummm... I vaguely remember the dimension bit, but what does that mean? I mean, Deveron is made up of dimensions but's technically just 7 parts of one world seperated into their proper skittle piles
[2015-05-31 02:26:55] <Starr|PL> I can probably bet nobody else knows that either
[2015-05-31 02:28:35] <Shadow> That's the thing. The geography of this dimension could wrap around in so many ways
[2015-05-31 02:29:22] <Keileon> I remember something about the burned-out core of a planet but that's probably what it is inside ofits dimension
[2015-05-31 02:30:33] <Shadow> The burned-out core of the planet is what collapsed into the dimension iirc
[2015-05-31 02:30:46] <Ziolang> Well that's kind of an important detail that might need, idk, some /major/ attention. Is it a spherical entity? Are there natural rifts that can have you in one environmental location and then all of a sudden it's snowing?
[2015-05-31 02:32:06] <Shadow> No clue!
[2015-05-31 02:32:16] <Ziolang> welp
[2015-05-31 02:32:38] <Starr|PL> Rip
[2015-05-31 02:33:16] <Ziolang> What's even sustaining this world in this dimensional suspension? Is this unique crystal network so connected to mana that it's basically lodging itself into a stable existence of some kind?
[2015-05-31 02:34:47] <Ziolang> Do Erevans even know how they got into the dimension? Was life extinguished at this world's collapse and they happened along it somehow?
[2015-05-31 02:35:01] <Ziolang> These be the questions peeps
[2015-05-31 02:35:13] <Ziolang> Let's figure this stuff out
[2015-05-31 02:38:38] <Shadow> Actually we had already established the nature of the dimension. The planet collapsed into this dimension by a miraculous feat of the world's Mana attempting to maintain stability, and managing to do so by bubbling the fabric of space into what is known as Rinul
[2015-05-31 02:39:08] <Ziolang> Kewl; that's one thing taken care of.
[2015-05-31 02:40:25] <Ziolang> How did Erevans even get there? Were they from the collapsed world and somehow made the shift or did they find it or what? Cause if they found it that would mean they came from yet another world
[2015-05-31 02:41:03] <Keileon> I'd just like to quickly note that it's "Ereva" not "Erevans"
[2015-05-31 02:41:08] <Keileon> [/picky]
[2015-05-31 02:41:28] <Starr|PL> Lol
[2015-05-31 02:41:53] <Ziolang> It's probably more of a fish vs fishes thing tbh
[2015-05-31 02:44:22] <Ziolang> Alright so if Rinul is effectively the product of a world's mana "solidifying" into a meta-physical dimensional state, that would explain the unique crystal build up; which by rights could be the solidified state of the world's existence
[2015-05-31 02:44:23] <Shadow> So much for that...!
[2015-05-31 02:44:56] <Ziolang> But doesn't explain it's connection to the Ereva
[2015-05-31 02:46:00] <Ziolang> It's possible they were from the world prior to its collapse, knew the impending end and left somehow, but then discovered their world miraculously reconstructed itself into its dimensional state and so they came back to it
[2015-05-31 02:46:24] <Ziolang> Which would lead to their high-respect and eventual religious views toward mana
[2015-05-31 02:46:25] <Shadow> That's actually really simple. If the crystals are the "solidified state of the world's existence", then its inhabitants, who are also part of the world, must have that connection too
[2015-05-31 02:46:26] <Keileon> The Ereva probably evolved after the fact
[2015-05-31 02:46:58] <Shadow> Nah, I'm not sure if I like the whole "left and came back" deal
[2015-05-31 02:47:03] <Ziolang> Mmmk
[2015-05-31 02:49:27] <Ziolang> Mayhaps the reconstruction simply included the production of life beings; perhaps prana was pulled into this reconstruction for that idk
[2015-05-31 02:52:03] <Shadow> It's plausible to say that they evolved after the dimension was born, and eventually came to understand the utterly improbable nature of their own world. Which, along with the abundance of Mana in Rinul, would then quickly turn into this pseudo-religious connection to Mana
[2015-05-31 02:53:54] <Ziolang> random note: Just noticed... Rinul... Renewel...
[2015-05-31 02:54:02] <Keileon> ... LOL
[2015-05-31 02:54:32] <Starr|PL> That's awfully convenient
[2015-05-31 02:54:34] <Ziolang> Strange how stuff like that plays out
[2015-05-31 02:54:43] <Keileon> We do this a lot
[2015-05-31 02:54:55] <Keileon> Like with voids
[2015-05-31 02:59:29] <Keileon> I kind of want to figure out the society more than the dimendion-planet's existence though
[2015-05-31 02:59:33] <Keileon> *dimension
[2015-05-31 03:00:31] <Ziolang> Well the world's status and the Ereva's knowledge of it would factor into that
[2015-05-31 03:01:01] <Keileon> How frequent is their contact with other civilizations? What sort of government do they have or does it vary on location? What's the general lifestyle? Stuff like that.
[2015-05-31 03:01:49] <Ziolang> I'm better with dimensional shenanigans than I am with society
[2015-05-31 03:02:25] <Keileon> Personally I can see them being somewhat theocratic/obviously magocratic
[2015-05-31 03:03:07] <Keileon> Maybe a class system.
[2015-05-31 03:03:10] <Ziolang> Democratic Theocracy
[2015-05-31 03:03:15] <Ziolang> That would be weird
[2015-05-31 03:04:12] <Keileon> What would be even weirder is a class system where people aren't impoverished, which is fully possible with this race, I think
[2015-05-31 03:04:56] <Ziolang> I get the feeling this race survives more off of mana than physical sustenance
[2015-05-31 03:05:45] <Keileon> That's possible too
[2015-05-31 03:08:51] <Ziolang> I mean, if food/water/w/e wasn't such an immediate need as it is for humans, poverty wouldn't be too frequent/severe
More stuff, possibly reiterated from above but a good reference nonetheless
[19:07:34] Keileon Shadow, infodump what you know/can think of about Rinul off the top of your head
[19:07:45] Keileon (I'll be having Zio do the same)
[19:08:31] Keileon And before you ask "why"; wiki shenanigans
[19:12:46] Shadow Oops sorry I had notifications off
[19:12:55] Shadow Alright, uhhh...
[19:14:30] Shadow Isolated world inside a dimensional bubble. No consensus was ever reached on its topography, but I'm going with the assumption that it's a plane that loops around as if you were walking on a sphere
[19:17:25] Keileon And the Ereva?
[19:17:27] Shadow Society is ideologically Mana-centric, and their technology revolves around the usage of Mana crystals. Effectively a "manapunk" sort of thematic
[19:17:32] Keileon o
[19:21:12] Keileon Did we have a demonym yet?
[19:22:01] Shadow Not that I know
[19:39:23] Keileon >Trying to organize possible Rinul page
[19:39:45] Keileon >Suddenly realize I've been trying to group characters by family name where possible
[19:40:11] Keileon What if Ereva society actually does put significance on family lines
[19:43:36] Shadow maybe?
[19:44:06] Keileon My mind strays towards developing culture and society more than the inner workings of the planet oop
[20:12:59] Keileon Zio infodump what you know/can think of about Rinul off the top of your head
[20:14:14] Ziolang magipunk, unique mana-crystal formations worldwide, dimensional planar world, Ereva, gets eaten by Malice
[20:15:06] Keileon a little more detail than that please, trying to do wiki stuff
[20:15:17] Keileon Also what you know about ereva
[20:15:47] Ziolang I'm doing a trillion things at once so bear with me
[20:15:51] Keileon (also I forget Kala's and Rowan's surnames)
[20:15:52] Keileon kk
[20:16:04] Ziolang Can you narrow your inquiries maybe?
[20:16:06] Starr|Ipod Doesn't Rowan not use a surname?
[20:16:38] Keileon Basically I need anything pertaining to geography/ecology/culture
[20:16:40] Ziolang Rowan has no surname
[20:16:53] Keileon So should I just put "[[Rowan]]?
[20:16:55] Keileon *"
[20:16:58] Ziolang Yes
[20:17:04] Keileon kk
[20:17:19] Keileon That makes things interesting because like
[20:17:20] Ziolang He renounced his surname altogether and is against replacing it
[20:17:30] Keileon [19:39:23] Keileon >Trying to organize possible Rinul page
[20:17:30] Keileon [19:39:45] Keileon >Suddenly realize I've been trying to group characters by family name where possible
[20:17:30] Keileon [19:40:11] Keileon What if Ereva society actually does put significance on family lines
[20:17:30] Keileon [19:43:36] Shadow maybe?
[20:18:02] Ziolang I would imagine lineage is a huge role in their culture given the birth crystal factor
[20:18:40] Ziolang Birth crytals could even share symbiotic properties with other crystals in the same lineage
[20:28:53] Keileon But yeah what I'm looking for most for the Rinul page is culture, with geography as a lesser concern because we haven't actually figured much out there
[20:30:12] Keileon Ecology we haven't figured out, and I could probably take a stab at it myself since that's one of my few strong points in the wiki lol
[20:31:19] Ziolang I know we entertained the idea of elementals being prominent
[20:31:33] Keileon I like that idea
[20:33:17] Ziolang Culture I imagine follows something like familial lineage produces occupation or trade; ie more often than not you go into the family business and it's been that way for generations. Mana theory is commonly taught, but partially diluted via their religious approach to it.
[20:33:51] Ziolang More apt to be passive, so fewer conflicts than worlds like Terra
[20:33:54] Starr|Ipod Sounds about right @occupational/trade family things
[20:34:02] Keileon Which is why we would probably tend to see rich families like the Skycrowns
[20:34:15] Starr|Ipod Alkerheims and Zirka's maiden surname handles jewelry
[20:34:40] Keileon I'm /still/ not sure what sort of business Aldon's in
[20:36:13] Starr|Ipod So basically society is predominantly capitalistic ?
[20:36:51] Keileon Capitalism done right, I think, since we've established poverty really isn't A Thing in the same sense as it is here
[20:38:00] Ziolang I think their currency, should they have any, holds value as well. That is their currency can literally be exchanged for a material of that amount of value
[20:38:35] Ziolang Crystal market =x
[20:39:13] Starr|Ipod So a trade-capitalist sort of deal?
[20:39:20] Keileon I'm not sure what you mean, if you're saying that's not how irl currency (is supposed to) work
[20:40:07] Keileon Or do you mean how in fantasy settings you can just give gold and silver and stuff to pay for items?
[20:40:19] Ziolang I'm saying that if they have a currency, it's in the form of what it's supposed to be and not a false property
[20:40:50] Keileon Right, so the fantasy staple gold coin rather than our printed paper
[20:40:51] Ziolang ie, if it is a paper money, it is literally worth a set amount of [gold, silver, etc]
[20:41:12] Ziolang Or something like unto that, yes
[20:41:23] Keileon Makes sense
[20:42:27] Starr|Ipod Ohhh
[20:43:39] Ziolang Communities are probably founded, not so much as lead. A leading family would stake the claim and hold governorship by rights of claim. Something like that
[20:44:05] Starr|Ipod Ah, that sounds cool
[20:44:19] Starr|Ipod Maybe the Alkerheims own a town or something
[20:44:32] Ziolang Well that's the thing
[20:44:56] Ziolang Over generations of time, the original founding family would have spread out, balancing the power between multiple core families
[20:45:21] Ziolang So the Alkerheims would not so much "own a town" so much as have key influence in it
[20:46:05] Starr|Ipod Ah
[20:46:55] Starr|Ipod I'd imagine their head of the family, being the one who'd run the mining company, would have lots of influence in terms of job production and maybe lending a hand in lobbying for certain legislation
[20:46:56] Ziolang It'd be like a... familial capitalist democratic hierarchy?
[20:47:51] Keileon Magocratic democracy is I think what we decided on
[20:53:13] Keileon I feel like Aldon's thing is probably fur/leather/silk/similar expensive or high quality fabric
[20:57:05] Ziolang I'm fairly certain Rowan's father was a researcher of some kind
[23:21:24] Zio Rinul should have diamond dust
[23:24:41] Starr don't they already have Dust
[23:24:49] Starr Alkerheim one
[23:26:24] Zio No like, where it "snows" crystal flecks
[23:26:31] Starr oh
[23:26:34] Starr okay
[23:29:54] Zio High concentrations of mana could get pulled into the weather cycle, like bundled up with evaporating water, and then cumulate in the atmosphere and "snow" back down.
[23:30:25] Starr so a mana weather system?
[23:30:54] Zio The occasional mana weather anomoly, yeah
[23:31:26] Starr maybe to push mana to places seasonally to uphold some form of mana-dependant plants or what have you
[23:33:22] Zio That's the cool part, yeah. It can help sustain and even improve the mana-heavy ecosystems
[23:34:54] Starr Maybe like a El Nino type of thing. Where it isn't THAT common, but sometimes mana systems develop in certain places where the mana flow in the environment hasn't been well while taking that mana from places where they've had a little too much
[23:35:25] Zio And it wouldn't be a problem for the locals methinks cause as Ereva unintentionally inhale or swallow the falling flecks it would probably just absorb into their system.
[23:36:15] Zio Grand Admiral Shadow, a moment of your time should you have anything to proffer this discussion?
[23:36:46] Starr *Marshal
[23:37:11] Starr now my interests in Rinul have been rekindled
[23:37:16] Starr lol
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[23:41:53] -->| Zio (Ziolang@hidden-uk1hmj.public.wayport.net) has joined #Manaverse
[23:42:28] Shadow >Mana ecosystem
[23:42:29] Zio Did anyone say anything since my last comment? whatever that last comment was...
[23:42:29] Shadow You have my interest
[23:42:33] Zio oh
[23:42:36] Zio kewl
[23:42:49] Starr hey i had some part in that toooo
[23:42:51] Zio well we already established two crucial things
[23:43:13] Zio The crystal growth grows literally anywhere
[23:43:23] Zio and elementals are prevelant
[23:43:47] Zio So 'mana weather' seems only natural for supporting such
[23:44:27] Keileon This has interesting potential
(I immediately looked at the Wiki when I saw that you'd posted about roughing in a page but...) Do you have a rough/draft page set up somewhere, Kuda?
Working on a .txt.
Gotcha. I was going to offer to help if you wanted assistance, but I assume you have it under control if you haven't set it up as a GDoc or as a subpage to your userpage~
Here, if you want.
Most of the information I just noted down can be found in the chatlog, though... you'll have to ask one of the others for more about the "crystal growths".
Alright, where to start, where to start...
I talked to Shadow a little bit tonight about Rinul. I figured I would relay the contents of our conversation here, but rather than dump a chatlog about it I thought it might be for the best to interpret the resulting discussion instead. Keeps the information fresh in my mind and saves wading through the back-and-forth.
- Rinul's destruction takes place at roughly SCT (in both Prime and Alter Timelines). The particulars of the timeline of events are "unclear," but Shadow said that Rinul had already been gone for a while by the time of CoU.
- Rinul's dimension has Mana in such abundance because it comes as the result of Mana attempting to salvage the planet (to maintain "harmony," as is the nature of the aether). The Mana crystals are not always of a 'maximal' quality because of the geography of the new dimension.
- Speaking of which, the new dimension is at least partially made up of pieces that were 'salvaged' from the original planet. Mana (to retain the aforementioned harmony) pulled bits and pieces from the old world into the newborn dimension and let terraforming do the rest. Mana basically reconstructed the original Rinul within a new, stable environment.
- There is nothing currently defined about why Rinul collapsed in the first place, but it would have been something "special" in some capacity. Mana does not "normally" behave in such a way.
- Still undecided whether the Ereva are the inhabitants of the previous world, or just a race that evolved naturally after the event.
- Technology is continually referred to as "manapunk / magipunk" -- which is essentially steampunk but with the focus being more on the power source of crystals/Mana. The level of this technology is "rustic," but decidedly advanced. Vehicles and weapons might use an Ereva's birthstone as their power source, for instance.
About Ereva and their birthstones, Shadow said they are gems that are bound to the Ereva from birth (and even before birth, as they develop in utero). The birthstones encompass the entirety of the Ereva's Mana Circuits, making them essentially the physical manifestation of an Ereva's Mana Pool. They physically grow in size/mass as the Ereva's Mana Circuits develop (often acquiring hues/shapes, etc).
Theorycrafting a bit, I wondered whether or not it'd be possible for an Ereva to have their birthstones shaped or 'cut,' essentially like how one would cut a diamond or something, to make it more 'visually appealing.' The response was that it is possible, but it'd require a lot of precision and care into doing something like that. Damaging an Ereva's birthstone simultaneously damages their Mana Circuits. If a birth crystal were to be destroyed, the Ereva's Mana Circuits are irreparably lost. I also wanted to know whether or not someone with the power (Soul Phantasm) to manipulate minerals could mess with an Ereva's birth crystal. The response was "To a degree, yeah."
Now, I want to do a bit of worldbuilding myself and pitch some thoughts for further discussion...
My personal suggestion for a demonym would be 'Rinulian.'
I really quite like Starr's idea in one of the above chatlogs about the Ereva/Rinul's society being rather 'hippy-esque' in nature. I think it'd be interesting to play up the contrast between the militant Crysians and the more "docile" Rinulpeople, who have seemingly evolved to the point that their entire Mana Pool could be theoretically put in jeopardy due to evolution (i.e. their birthcrystals existing outside of them, rather than other species having their Circuits remain internal). What could possibly be the reason for this evolution? What benefit could there be to exposing such a vital function? The notion of the Ereva being interested in being "at one" with Mana in some form of worship is appealing.
I had more to write but I got sidetracked. Hopefully this inspires further discussion?
I'm growing fond of the idea of a cut demonym; particularly "Rinian". I mean, it's not like it has to contain the entire planet name or those exact letters.
As for their culture I'm very attracted to the docile aspect. And family units being central adds to that beautifully.
All I have for now cause on phone at work.
While I have no ideas for why it's a crystal in the first place, one of the obvious answers is that having a hard, possibly sharp crystalline structure growing inside the body would likely cause irritation/pain and possibly internal damage.
We've got a habit in the Manaverse of tying crystals to magic and Mana. While I don't think there's been a specific conversation about why we do that, I think I remember Shadow mentioning once that certain minerals and metals were useful for storing Mana? Hence why Mythril has that property. Then again, I may be misremembering and inserting something from the Inheritance Cycle.
Pasting this here for reference to the actual text rather than just my extrapolation of it on the Wiki